Humanitats

Entrevista a la poeta Isabel M. Ortega

Per Josep Sacarès Capellà

En el marc de l’assignatura “Literatura i tradició”, del Màster Universitari d’Humanitats: art, literatura i cultura contemporànies, de la Universitat Oberta de Catalunya, Josep Sacarès Capellà ha dut a terme una aproximació a la presència de la tradició clàssica en la poesia d’Isabel M. Ortega. El seu treball inclou una entrevista a l’autora, que creiem d’interès i que us oferim a continuació.

Foto IMOrtegaIsabel M. Ortega Rion és una de les veus actuals, sobretot en l’àmbit de la poesia. Llicenciada en Psicologia i Filosofia, el seu món professional es mou, d’una part, en el camp de la docència, ja que és professora de llengua catalana i literatura en un centre de Cornellà, i de l’altra, en l’esfera de la creació. Atreta pel món de les lletres, ha publicat novel·la, ha fet traducció, però crec que podem dir que el seu eix clau el representa la poesia. En aquest món poètic barreja la tradició amb la modernitat i el mite amb l’ésser més actual.

—Per situar-nos un poquet, quan podem dir que va sortir Isabel M. Ortega com a autora? En quin moment va començar a escriure? Va tenir una vocació creadora des de joveneta?

De vegades s’associa la creació a la projecció pública. En el meu cas, la publicació va ser tardana, però vaig començar a escriure de molt joveneta: devia tenir uns dotze anys. Curiosament, el mòbil de la creació va ser la música, art que sempre m’ha captivat. Cap als dotze anys, vaig començar a inventar cançons —lletra i música, tot plegat horrible— generalment per a mi, pel fet mateix del gaudi de crear. Més endavant, em vaig interessar per la poesia i em deixava seduir pels autors que m’agradaven —aleshores en llengua castellana (Salinas, Neruda, Guillén…)— fins al punt que intentava imitar-los. D’altra banda, sentir les versions de Serrat, Raimon, Lluís Llach o fins i tot Ramon Muntaner em va apropar a la poesia catalana; va ser la meva primera presa de contacte perquè a l’escola mai no havíem llegit res en català.

El fet de ser una persona molt introvertida afavoria la necessitat d’abocar emocions i sentiments en els escrits; una mena de catarsi. Mai no vaig ser conscient de tenir vocació de creadora; el que sí que hi ha és una necessitat d’expressar una visió i/o comprensió del món, que de vegades no coincideix amb la dels altres.

—Des de Viatge d’anada fins a Medusa, des d’una novel·la a la seva darrera obra poètica, què es manté i què ha canviat d’Isabel M. Ortega?

Viatge d’anada va ser un projecte que ens van proposar a l’Albert Tomàs —físic— i a mi quan es va introduir l’ESO als instituts. Es tractava d’explicar temes diversos de la ciència en forma novel·lada; en el nostre cas, va ser la meteorologia. Em va semblar interessant perquè era una oportunitat d’apropar-me a un tema científic i aprendre’n. Tot i que la considero una obra menor, sí que hi vaig pensar quan escrivia Nòmada. Viatge d’anada és un viatge sense tornada que fa un adolescent en fugir d’una situació familiar que l’angoixa. Es manté el desig de fugida, sigui real o metafòrica, l’interès per les relacions humanes i per trobar el sentit a la pròpia existència. El que ha canviat és, essencialment, el to: era conscient que Viatge d’anada anava destinat a un lector adolescent, de manera que calia buscar recursos que l’enganxessin, tot fugint dels temes suats. Quan escric poesia, en canvi, no pretenc agradar a ningú en concret perquè no tinc cap perfil a qui vagi destinada; en aquest sentit, em sento lliure.

—Va començar per la narrativa però després ha seguit el camí de la poesia. Què té la poesia que l’atreu més?

La narrativa sempre m’ha atret; en llegeixo molta. Però, a l’hora d’escriure, em sento més còmoda amb la poesia, cosa que no vol dir que no em representi un esforç. Per a mi, la poesia requereix una tensió, una concentració i una precisió lingüística molt gran: és com tibar un fil fins al límit, tot impedint que es trenqui. En una novel·la de 200 pàgines, per exemple, n’hi pot haver 30 de fluixetes sense que la qualitat es vegi afectada greument; en canvi, en un poema, no pots deixar una paraula coixa perquè tot s’enderroca. A més, crec que no tinc imaginació per fer novel·les.

—De la seva producció poètica, només hi ha una obra, Runa plena, en la qual podem dir que la mitologia és inexistent. Com és que recrea quasi sempre aquest món?

A Runa plena no hi és inexistent del tot; es parla de mites, però sense fer-ne referència directa a cap. Hi ha un apartat —margenal— que tracta de la relació del mite amb la mort. Pel que fa a la recreació dels mites, la mitologia és part de la meva formació: primerament la tradició bíblica i cristiana, pel fet d’haver anat a un col·legi de monges, i després, a través de la filosofia, la mitologia grega. Són les dues grans tradicions de la cultura occidental; d’una manera o d’una altra, ens conformen.

—Quan es va despertar el seu interés per la mitologia i com se l’apropia, o se l’ha apropiat?

Cap als 16 o 17 anys, la lectura de l’Odissea em va mostrar un univers mític molt interessant. Jo estava habituada als relats bíblics adobats amb la moral cristiana. Més endavant, llegir les tragèdies gregues, per exemple, em va obrir a una visió del món i de les relacions humanes ben diferent, sense interpretacions religioses, cosa que em va permetre endinsar-me en la psicologia dels personatges, en les seves situacions límit nues de tot prejudici sobre la transcendència.

Com que les històries que expliquen els mites d’una cultura i d’una altra són colpidores i d’alguna manera universals, en el sentit que poden ser adaptades als nostres dies, em resultava interessant recórrer-hi per poder explicar coses; no em calia inventar personatges, ni posar-me jo mateixa com a protagonista: els personatges ja estan carregats d’entitat i tenen una connotació i una consistència que permeten expressar més amb menys paraules.

— D’on creu que prové en vostè aquest interès? Qui l’hi va despertar, si és el cas?

Crec que prové del fet que els mites són una expressió humana dels desitjos, les pors i els interrogants més intensos de l’ésser humà. Sempre plantegen el mateix, siguin de la tradició que siguin. Els mites diuen molt de nosaltres i de la nostra manera d’ésser al món. No endolceixen la brutalitat de les relacions humanes sinó que la mostren de la manera més nua. A més, plantegen temes “eterns”: la mort, el pas del temps i l’amor, temes que han estat presents des dels orígens del pensament filosòfic.

Potser el que m’hi va fer apropar més de ple va ser una matèria del primer curs a la universitat: Antropologia filosòfica. La comparació que s’hi feia sobre el concepte dels déus de la mitologia grega, que converteix l’ésser humà en innocent —a mercè dels capricis volubles d’unes divinitats que presenten tots els nostres defectes i virtuts— i la mitologia de tradició judeocristiana, en què Déu és tot bondat i l’ésser humà és culpable dels mals del món, em va semblar molt interessant.

—Per a què li serveix? Vull dir, a veure si li serveix d’escut, si és una manera d’amagar-se, de deixar el seu “jo” sota un altre nom.

Una pregunta interessant… Potser sí que serveix per amagar-me… Sempre és més fàcil parlar d’un altre que d’un mateix; és com allò de “tinc un amic que té aquest problema…”. És cert que en la poesia sempre hi ha una mica d’striptease emocional, però he defugit mostrar totes les cartes. Per pudor i perquè no crec que els meus problemes concrets interessin ningú. Crec que hi poso emoció, però filtrada pel sedàs del pensament. A més, voldria anar més enllà de l’anècdota per arribar a una reflexió sobre l’existència i que aquesta reflexió arribi a qui llegeix.

—D’on li ve la necessitat de prendre la mitologia com a referent?

Tinc debilitat pels personatges perdedors; són més «poètics», a més de «patètics». Fixa’t que la major part dels que esmento en els poemes són víctimes, monstres o éssers silenciats. Són els marginals. Em costaria molt fer un poema sobre Zeus, per exemple, perquè sento més propers els altres: una Cassandra, una Medea, una Antígona, una Edith (la dona de Lot), una Hèstia… Generalment són personatges femenins; em resulta més fàcil, com a dona, prendre’ls com a referent. I m’agrada reclamar la innocència d’aquests personatges perquè posa en evidència la interpretació maniquea que s’ha fet amb molts d’ells. És el que pretenc fer amb Medusa: intento invertir la història que ens han explicat, la converteixo en víctima davant la indiferència o la crueltat dels botxins. I si ho portem a l’àmbit de les relacions humanes, en resulta una visió social i política determinades.

—I d’actualitzar-la? Per exemple, en el cas de Nòmada canvia la llegenda i fa sortir Hèstia a recórrer món…, en fa una versió totalment nova i personal. Li agrada jugar a formar noves històries? És la creació per a vostè, en part, joc?

No sé si és un joc. En tot cas, si ho és, acabo creient-me’l de debò. Hèstia és un personatge tan silenciós que poca gent coneix. No és protagonista de cap història, no parla, és gairebé invisible. Potser representa la mateixa invisibilitat a què ha estat sotmesa la dona durant segles. En aquest poemari, m’interessava expressar sentiments i emocions d’algú que se sent en un món que no li pertoca o que li és estrany; podia ser jo mateixa, però la força d’una Hèstia se me’n va endur: el paradigma de l’ocultament, la gran Mare protectora, el pal de paller de la casa se’n va. I tot es desmunta: ella, que ha de descobrir o redescobrir el món, i els de casa, que es queden desprotegits. Tenir com a referent un personatge d’aquest tipus permet expressar amb més intensitat el desconcert, l’estranyesa, la solitud.

—La Bíblia és, també, un referent en la seva producció, i en general en totes les obres. Tant trobam un Caïm com un cal·ligrama en forma de calze… Per què també la segueix? És una manera de dir: també són mites? O hi ha alguna creença més profunda?

Com he comentat abans, la tradició bíblica i la grecoromana formen part del nostre bagatge cultural occidental. El fet que apareguin referències a la Bíblia en els meus poemes prové del coneixement que en tinc per haver estat sotmesa a una educació escolar religiosa; i me n’aprofito. Les històries que s’hi expliquen també són brutals; l’horror hi és present: càstigs, morts, venjances, aquest déu omnipotent i despietat que causa temor més que amor… Sí, per a mi són mites; de fet, molts dels relats bíblics provenen de cultures anteriors; si més no, hi ha molts paral•lelismes. Una història com la de Moisès, per exemple, que va ser llençat al riu en una cistella i va ser trobat i criat en un altre ambient, i després acompleix el seu destí, és present en moltes altres cultures. Els mites són això: representacions universals.

—M’ha agradat molt el vessant reivindicatiu de Runa plena, la lluita d’aquest poble que manté per a sempre les paraules. Es va proposar fer una obra un poc homenatge a tots aquells que varen lluitar d’una manera o altra per mantenir la nostra llengua i cultura?

D’alguna manera, sí. Feia temps que constatava una pèrdua del sentit de lluita o una mena de conformisme social. Com si tot estigués bé, com si ja no calgués lluitar per res ni revoltar-se per res. Alhora, veia que molta gent que havia brandat la bandera de les reivindicacions s’asseien a la poltrona de casa o la del poder. Sentia un desencant, em sentia estafada. I volia parlar de les persones que havien lluitat per aconseguir un món més just, que s’hi havien deixat la pell i, en canvi, ja no comptaven gaire… Ara que hi penso, té a veure amb el que comento tres preguntes més amunt: també són personatges perdedors, tot i que segueixen resistint amb el poc que els queda.

I tant que també pensava en aquells que havien lluitat per mantenir la nostra llengua i la nostra cultura! Per a mi, el poemari Runa plena encara és vigent i avui dia continua tenint sentit, potser més que quan el vaig escriure

—Vostè va néixer a Tarragona, com creu que l’ha afectada, o marcada, el fet de viure entre el mar d’aquesta Mediterrània, que just al costat presenta tanta pedra, una pedra, la de Tàrraco, amb molta d’història; que també uneix un món pagà amb el dels primers cristians. Pensa que, de manera volguda o no, tots aquests elements li han fet seguir una línia de creació?

Suposo que el fet d’haver viscut amb la presència constant de la mar sí que té a veure amb la gestació de molts poemes; el mateix passa amb les pedres: els tarragonins/-es som conscients que vivim sobre les runes del passat; trepitgem història. Dels humans de temps anteriors, només ens queden les pedres; és el que perdura. Però això que comentes sobre la unió d’un món pagà amb el dels primers cristians no ho havia pensat mai. M’agrada molt que ho vegis així perquè em sembla bonic; en el meu cas, però, sempre he tingut més present el pes de la tradició romana.

—Podem parlar també d’un intent d’anar homenejant autors, de la nostra literatura, o no, pintors, músics…, en definitiva: la cultura, les arts, bé sigui amb referències directes o més indirectes? Per exemple, a mi “ressaca”, del llibre Runa plena, m’ha recordat aquell “home perla” de Rodoreda a La meva Cristina; “parc” a “La relíquia” de Joan Alcover…“Cubisme”, el món del contes amb “Alícia” i d’altres; alguns ja esmentats en el treball de recerca de Laia Dolç sobre la seva poesia.

Sí, hi ha referències volgudes, però d’altres, no. Crec que, quan s’escriu, no s’és plenament conscient del que hi ha a la rebotiga del cervell. Les lectures van deixant un pòsit que acaba conformant-te i donant-te una visió determinada del món. L’associació dels poemes que comentes no és volguda: quan ho has dit, he pensat que sí, que potser hi tenen alguna cosa a veure, però no de forma conscient.

D’altres vegades sí que he volgut homenatjar autors de la nostra cultura o bé de fora; és una manera d’agrair-los el llegat i de dir: “Per a mi hi sou, compto amb vosaltres.”

—Pens que la seva poesia és una unió del més tradicional amb elements, invents… que volen mostrar la modernitat de manera expressa. Podem dir que el món clàssic lliga perfectament amb el món més actual? Per exemple “ A Crisàor”:
                 Una criatura plora en un vagó de metro.
                 El gest de passar pàgines d’un llibre s’ha aturat.
                Un diari es plega a mig llegir.
                Qui parla pel mòbil abaixa la veu.
                La criatura plora.
És pretesa la voluntat de fer una poesia marcada pel temps que li ha tocat viure?

Sí. La poesia no pot estar deslligada de l’experiència humana en un temps i un espai concrets quan vol expressar sensacions, emocions o pensaments que connectin amb l’ara i aquí. Crisàor va néixer de Medusa, un cop aquesta va ser morta: no es van conèixer. Volia expressar el dolor d’una mare sense fill, tant per la pèrdua com per no haver-lo tingut: com que el plor d’un bebè al metro és un fet quotidià, aprofito aquesta quotidianitat per anar més enllà i exposar un dolor emocional agut, lligat a la impotència de Medusa. L’avantatge dels mites és aquest: permeten seguir un fil del passat al present que lliga els temes de sempre.

—M’ha cridat l’atenció el poc color i la poca natura que surt en la seva obra. Potser va lligat al fet de ser fruit de la ciutat i d’un col•lectiu més aviat gris? A “Pícnic”, per exemple, no podríem parlar mai d’una natura idíl·lica, sinó al contrari: herbam i malves, flor vinculada als morts i als cementiris, molt adient, és clar, al tema de què tracta el poema; res a veure amb el que el lector podria esperar d’un títol com aquest, no?

Sí, probablement tens raó, si et refereixes a la natura com a camp, bosc, muntanyes… Hi ha poca presència perquè no forma part del meu entorn immediat i hi tinc poca relació. Quan veig paisatges bells, m’agraden, m’impacten, però sento que no és el meu àmbit. En canvi, sí que apareix molt la mar en la meva poesia; potser pel fet d’haver-la tingut sempre a la vora, és més propera, més meva. Hi ha també, però, una altra qüestió: la natura ens fa adonar de la nostra contingència, almenys ho veig així: aquest moviment continuat de naixement i mort provoca el sentiment de petitesa, la constatació de la nostra caducitat, una mica a la manera de com ho plasma Caspar David Friedrich. A “Pícnic” vaig jugar amb el títol perquè justament qui fan el pícnic són els insectes; de fet, l’herbam, les malves, les formigues… ens sobreviuran: és l’experiència d’una individualitat caduca —la pròpia— davant la continuïtat genèrica de la vida.

Pel que fa a l’absència de color, no hi havia pensat mai. Potser sí que té a veure amb la grisor de la ciutat i del col•lectiu humà que la conformem; és una bona observació.

—En canvi: formigues, serps, llangardaixos, aranyes, (fils, filats…) surten sovint. Volen representar la mort, els canvis i la vida?

Amb els insectes, em passa una cosa curiosa: hi sento repulsió i atracció. Em fan angúnia, però alhora em fascina aquest microcosmos. Això ja em ve de molts anys enrere: recordo com, de petita, em quedava, temps i temps, mirant fileres de formigues i intentant imaginar què pensaven, què feien, com es comunicaven… En els insectes, hi veig una representació dels éssers humans: n’hi ha que tenen una activitat delirant, d’altres són més passius… També tenen components mitològics: l’escarabat, a la cultura egípcia en els rituals funeraris; l’aranya, a l’oriental… El llangardaix és un altre animal que em fa pensar: sap aturar-se, mentre que nosaltres tenim necessitat d’actuar constantment. I la serp, tan menyspreada per la nostra cultura —ja des dels temps bíblics—, em provoca fascinació per la seva metamorfosi: mudar la pell, com una mort i un renaixement. Sí, aquests animals tenen relació amb la vida i la mort.

—Podria dir-me què signifiquen, en el seu món poètic, mirada, ull, mirall, pedra, runa, ciutat, aigua, cementiri, somni…, paraules constants en tota la seva producció?

Tot i que la majoria no van més enllà del seu sentit habitual, i només demostren una certa “obsessió” per un tema, ho intentaré:
Mirada: és un element clau en la nostra cultura perquè és el sentit que ens obre al món d’una manera més directa. Som una cultura de la visió i la nostra llengua n’està plena, de referències. “Veure” és copsar el món, integrar-lo, apropiar-se’l. Som depredadors amb la mirada, lligada a l’altra paraula: “ulls”, també carregada de significat. Fixa’t la quantitat de referències que hi ha als ulls, no solament per als occidentals sinó també per a la cultura oriental: l’ull de Déu en les representacions icòniques cristianes, el tercer ull de Xiva de l’hinduisme… I a l’altra banda de la mirada sempre hi ha l’Altre, sigui el que sigui (un ésser humà, un animal, un paisatge…). Encara que generalment la mirada s’associa a la proximitat, és el que ens fa adonar de la separació entre el jo i l’altre. Només quan l’altre ens absorbeix com una mena d’encanteri, deixem de ser jo d’alguna manera; és el que passa amb l’amor o quan fem l’amor.
Mirall: ens enfronta a nosaltres mateixos i això, moltes vegades, ens fa mal, fins al punt que arribem a distorsionar la imatge que projectem. Generalment, no ens reconeixem en els miralls.
Pedra: allò que perdura, que ens sobreviu. Alguna vegada he volgut personificar-la i integrar-la com un element propi per donar més pes i durabilitat a l’existència.
Runa: allò que perdura de nosaltres quan nosaltres ja no hi som. Les restes que deixem, com marques d’haver-hi estat.
Aigua: generalment l’associo a llibertat, no sé ben bé per què.
Ciutat: àmbit quotidià. Vida anònima; de vegades, solitud.
Cementiri: record. Diuen que els cementiris són les ciutats dels morts però, per a mi, més aviat són ciutats dels records, records que visitem de tant en tant i records que conviuen amb nosaltres, alguns una mica enterrats. De tota manera, els records també representen la mort del que ha estat present (i ara és passat).
Somni: desitjos, il·lusions, projeccions de futur, allò que ens fa tirar endavant. En els poemes, apareixen somnis destruïts, però l’energia del somni es renova, de manera que se’n poden crear de nous; és el que fem els humans per no ensorrar-nos. Algunes vegades recorro a la paraula “somni” en sentit d’irrealitat.

—I per acabar, com definiria la seva poesia? És una poesia trista però sempre amb un raig de llum i d’esperança? És així com veu la humanitat, la nostra llengua i el nostre país?

És molt difícil definir la poesia pròpia. Crec que es mou entre l’emoció i la reflexió, tot i que em costa molt d’esforç agermanar-les. Alguna vegada m’han dit que és “dura”, pel fet de constrènyer les paraules, de tibar-les.

No sé si és una poesia trista; el que intento és ser lúcida. I el món no és un espai idíl·lic. Els conflictes bèl·lics, les grans injustícies socials, la mesquinesa generalitzada, aquesta mena d’anestèsia davant el sofriment dels altres són com marc de fons poc definit, però present en molts poemes; així com la nostra llengua i el nostre país, també de la banda dels perdedors… Però hi ha els somnis, l’energia vital, la tossuderia de capgirar les coses —com en els poemes— perquè ser perdedor no vol dir renunciar sinó recollir forces per tirar endavant. Com dius tu, no és una poesia desesperançada sinó vitalista. I hi ha les paraules, que tenen el poder màgic de donar vida (i no segueixo perquè m’embrancaria amb allò del Logos…).

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  375. I’ll gear this review to 2 types of people: current Zune owners who are considering an upgrade, and people trying to decide between a Zune and an iPod. (There are other players worth considering out there, like the Sony Walkman X, but I hope this gives you enough info to make an informed decision of the Zune vs players other than the iPod line as well.)

  376. The new Zune browser is surprisingly good, but not as good as the iPod’s. It works well, but isn’t as fast as Safari, and has a clunkier interface. If you occasionally plan on using the web browser that’s not an issue, but if you’re planning to browse the web alot from your PMP then the iPod’s larger screen and better browser may be important.

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  380. The Zune concentrates on being a Portable Media Player. Not a web browser. Not a game machine. Maybe in the future it’ll do even better in those areas, but for now it’s a fantastic way to organize and listen to your music and videos, and is without peer in that regard. The iPod’s strengths are its web browsing and apps. If those sound more compelling, perhaps it is your best choice.

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